July 26, 2002

 

A Discussion on the Aspects of The Life Divine

 

Karmayogi

 

 

This article is at pains to explain the knotty points in The Life Divine through a discussion. It is meant for those who are familiar with the Book. Below is a sketchy summary of the BOOK,  The Life Divine and the aim of the discussion in life, especially the family and the school.

 

                The Rishis of ancient India discovered God is not a person but an Eternal Infinite known as Brahman (the Absolute of the West), which reveals to us as Sachchidananda as well as its opposite, Asat. This is beyond the reach of Man, as when he attains to it, he does not return. For the same reason, it is ineffable. Man can reach it only in Samadhi and when he returns from there, he does not bring back with him any memory. If he does, it refuses to go into words. On the other hand, there is the world full of its woes. They knew this whole world is Brahman, but never knew how the one emerged out of the other. As God and the world are facts of experience, we have to accept the existence of both. Both being irreconcilable opposites, we can choose either of them, not both. Man chooses life, the Rishi chooses God. The Rishi has perfected his science of yoga so perfectly in innumerable lives that on any line one reaches God, which is known as moksha. He separates the soul from the being of four parts – body, life, mind, spirit – and takes it to its origin.

 

                The ordinary man chooses life and passes through the four asramas at the end of which he seeks sannyasa. While in life his religion and philosophy have taught him about karma, values, duties, and dharma so that he may one day prepare to be a sannyasi. He finds the philosophic teachings and his practical life agree at many points but are at variance at many other points. Each man, community and nationality works out a practical philosophy as a working hypothesis. Those can be stated in detail in about 100 statements or briefly in 15 or 20 statements.

 

                Sri Aurobindo who took to yoga to win India's freedom was in Jail in 1910. Swami Vivekananda appeared before him for fifteen days and insisted that the thing Sri Aurobindo was seeking was not the true one and showed the Supramental world – Vignanamayaloka – to be true. Working on those lines, Sri Aurobindo attained to Supermind and saw that world moving down to earth to transform it. It is a world of Truth consciousness, Light, Power, and Love devoid of the distortions of pain, suffering, desire and death of our human world. He understood that twelve yogis who could reach the Supermind would be able to make it descend on earth. In the absence of it, HE and later SHE withdrew to work from the subtle plane. Should the Supermind descend on earth, death will be abolished along with all types of suffering, pain, evil, and darkness. Man will evolve to a Supramental Being who will have the form of man but not the internal organs of heart, liver, stomach, lungs, etc. as he would not eat or breathe. His energy will be drawn from the universe. His thought will have instantaneous effectivity. Sri Aurobindo tried to accomplish this in thirty years which would normally take 30,000 years. The Life of the Supramental Being HE calls 'Divine Life' and it is explained in the book The Life Divine. To evolve into the Supramental Being is the end of the goal of which the beginning is what I call Mother's Life.

 

The development of products occurs on two lines. 1) the vehicle starts from the horse, the bullock cart and goes up to the plane. Here the quality vastly changes at every step of change; 2) A super computer has its smaller versions and comes down to the PC and a calculator. Here the quality of the computer remains intact all along the line but its use, scope, size, and price vary. Yogic life or Mother's Life is such a miniature of Divine Life. At the human level Mother's life draws upon the Supramental Force that has descended into the subtle plane of the earth in 1956. One who follows the principles of Mother draws upon that infinite force so that the finite human life will flower into infinite Mother's life. Its least character is Luck that has no failure and at most it makes the incidence of grace frequent. Below I give the tenets of human life and Mother's life followed by the traditional spiritual beliefs accompanied in block letters of what Sri Aurobindo offers. As the principles of life are based on the theory of yoga, the latter is important. In the main body of the article, the principles are explained in a discussion. A special attempt is made to make those theories relevant to family and school. The cardinal aspects of it are freedom, freshness, self-discipline, inner life, personal growth, unfailing success in place of the traditional authority, dullness, external discipline, outer life, alternating success and failure.

 

1.       Anything in life is limited – resources, energy, material etc. The most characteristic of it is the longevity.

In Mother's life, nothing is limited unless we put a limit on it. One can decide the length of his own life.

2.       The ruling power of life is falsehood.

Truth rules, truth alone rules.

3.       Man is subjected to his past Karma

No Karma need bind him if he is willing to give up those habits through which Karma has a hold on man.

4.       Status, wealth, Power matter.

What matters is consciousness and that alone.

5.       External social life, movements of Nature are beyond the control of man.

The outer reflects the inner. All life outside is under man's control.

6.       A certain amount of violence, cruelty, and injustice is inevitable.

Mother's life is full of compassion and justice.

7.       Waste of material, energy, and Time is a part of life.

There is no waste, real waste as Nature accomplishes several things at one stroke giving the appearance of waste.

8.       Blood is thicker than water.

There is something thicker than blood.

9.       Success and failure alternate.

This is a life of unfailing success.

10.    Human nature will not change.

To transcend nature is our aim.

11.    Money, property, women lead to crime.

They lead to stronger affinities.

12.    Scarcity of one thing or other is inescapable.

Abundance is the rule. Scarcity is what we create.

13.    Man is selfish and mean.

Self-giving and generosity are the rule.

14.    Destiny rules.

Man fixes his life.

15.    Love, romance, friendship, loyalty are ephemeral.

They are the only lasting values of life.

16.    Ideals are not practical.

The greater the ideal, the more practical it is.

17.    A sound mind in a sound body.

Mind rules the body.

18.    Education means degree.

Neither degree nor knowledge is complete education. Education is the experience of the mind.

19.    We have to do as others in the society do.

It is not the society, nor even conscience that we have to follow. We must follow the soul.

20.    Every man born should work with his hands and body.

Work must be done by the mind or the soul through the body.

 

Though an endless list of common beliefs can be written, the central idea is human life is warped, distorted, and suffering is an essential part of it. Mother's life is fresh, LIVE, and expansive, delight and cheerfulness are part of it, while suffering and failure are not. The theoretical basis of these conclusions is the yogic principles of Sri Aurobindo whose main ideas are given below against the traditional spiritual experience.

 

1)       Attaining moksha is the highest human goal.

Not moksha but transformation is the goal.

2)       Asana, pranayama, dhyana, samadhi are the instruments

Physical methods will not be of use. Only surrender is the method.

3)       Jivatma should reach Paramatma.

Jivatma is itself Paramatma.

4)       Time is exceeded by Timelessness.

Both are exceeded by the simultaneous integrality of Time-eternity and Timeless-eternity.

5)       Our soul is immutable. It is Jivatma.

Our soul evolves into Brahman. It is the psychic being. The psychic being is the evolving deputy of Jivatma.

6)       Man is ruled by Time that is past, present and future.

Man is greater than Time. His Time is ever present.

7)       Man is the highest creation of God.

Man is not final. Supramental Being is the next species.

8)       Mind has created the world. Or ego has created the world.

Supermind has created the world, not mind or ego.

9)       Contradictions are a feature of life.

Contradictions are complementaries.

10)   Spirit is different from Matter.

They are one.

11)   God has created the universe as His Lila.

God seeks Delight in Self-discovery in creation in which HE has hidden himself.

12)   To know God is knowledge. To know the world is Ignorance.

Knowledge becomes Ignorance, the highest product of creation.

13)   We cannot know how the One became the Many.

We can know it. One and the Many are part of Brahman.

14)   Life is evil.

Life is a creative specialisation of the Force.

15)   We cannot know the process of creation.

Self-creation by the Infinite Being creating form out of its force is the process of creation.

16)   Sat is different from Chit is different from Ananda.

All of them are one. The world and Sachchidananda are one.

17)   The tradition does not define Spirit, Supermind, Mind, Life or Matter.

Sri Aurobindo defines all of them.

18)   Evil is the opposite of good and we have to live with it.

There is a self-existent Good against which no evil exists.

19)   Rebirth is there for man to overcome his Karma.

                Rebirth is necessary for the evolution of the soul.

20)   Life is to be shunned to attain to Spirit.

Life is to evolve into Spirit. It must not be shunned.

21)   Any work has its own Time. Time has to come.

We can make Time Come. No time is required for work.

22)   The Spirit is inside.

The whole universe and the Transcendent are inside.

23)   Matter moves Spirit.

Spirit moves Matter.

 

 

 

An Exhaustive List of Details – Facts in The Life Divine

 

v       We assume God as Eternal, Infinite, and Omnipresent Reality.

v       There HE is the One without a second.

v       HE seeks Delight.

v       Discovery is Delight.

v       The greatest of Delights is the delight of Self-discovery.

v       Self-discovery is at its height when one forgets oneself.

v       In pursuit of that Self-discovery, God the Eternal and Infinite has hidden Himself in Himself, that is, he became the very opposite of what HE is, the finite, Time, in an inconscient form.

v       This process is involution.

v       His Self-discovery is evolution.

v       God is known as Brahman in India and the Absolute in Europe.

v       So creation which is involution is the Absolute becoming Existence.

v       The very first step in creation is the Absolute becoming Existence.

v       The Absolute is a whole, characterised by unity.

v       The Absolute is absolute, not capable of qualities.

v       The Absolute becoming the relative creates dualities such as Existence and Non-Existence.

v       The Absolute, when it becomes the relative, does not cease to be the Absolute at all. It remains the Absolute throughout. Never for a moment is it other than what it is. Only in appearance is it relative, dual, divided.

v       At each stage of involution, it is absolute in its primal stage but relative in its further involution which is extension. For example, Existence is Absolute Existence but it puts out four extensions. In its absolute state, Existence is called Transcendent.

v       It extends as Sat-Chit-Ananda,

again it objectively extends as Truth

and its third extension it is Time and Space.

While it splits into three aspects of Atma, Purusha, Ishwara.

(Atma is also called Brahman)

v       Each of them divides into lower and higher parts as Supreme Brahman, and Brahman; Purushothama and Purusha; Parameswara and Ishwara.

v       Their three powers are known as Maya, Prakriti and Ishwara.

v       Man seeing from mind sees Atma, from Overmind Purusha, and from Supermind Ishwara.

v       Maya is conceptively creative, Prakriti is dynamically executive, and Ishwara is both conceptively creative and dynamically executive.

v       When Sat (Existence) objectivises itself it splits into subjective Sat and objective Satyam (Truth). That experience of Sat is Spirit. It is the substance, the Spiritual substance, the only substance by which the Cosmos, Universe and the world are made.

v       Sat extends and each stage of involution extends. Often the extended stage is called Nature. Sat is Existence as well as Existent, a Being.

v       Sat – Chit – Ananda are the subjective states of which Satyam – Jnanam – Anantam are objective states. (Truth – Knowledge – Infinity)

v       These objective states together are also called Truth-Consciousness as well as Supermind.

v       Sat and Asat are Existence and Non-Existence.

Chit and achit are Consciousness and Inconscience.

Ananda and Nirananda are Bliss and Insensibility.

v       The three powers of creation are Self-Conception, Self-limitation, Self-absorption.

v       The Consciousness of the Absolute is Maya.

v       Supermind is the creator.

v       Sat creates the Cosmos by a vibration of itself known as Real–Idea. Real–Idea is a vibration of the Being Sat.

v       The plane of Sat–Chit–Ananda has its manifest and unmanifest parts.

v       Sat creates in Supermind through Real–Idea in the planes of Time and Space.

v       Supermind has two halves -- comprehending Supermind and Apprehending Supermind. They split. Mind is created in between.

v       Comprehending Supermind is Timeless, Spaceless unmanifest. Apprehending Supermind is in manifestation, in Time and Space.

v       Mind which is the result of a cleavage of Supermind is an instrument of division. It divides continuously until the atomic stage is arrived at. Mind divides NOT the Being, but the Force that  issued out of it.

v       The Force issues out of the consciousness (Chit) and is known as Consciousness – Force. This is the point of Mother's birth.

v       Mind, a dividing instrument, looks at the Spiritual substance through its own senses.

v       Mind has consciousness and will.

v       Consciousness working on will releases Energy.

v       That plane of Energy is known as Life.

v       Life is created by the consciousness working on will during which process some of the consciousness is lost. When all consciousness is lost, life becomes matter.

v       Matter is life and mind involved as well as Supermind.

v       The involved forces must evolve.

v       Matter is form containing the energy of life – the force.

v       Involution is a process of inversion in which

Sat becomes Matter

Chit becomes Life

Ananda becomes Psychic

Supermind becomes Mind.

v       Sat is called by Sri Aurobindo Self-Conscious Being.

v       Sat is the immutable Being.

Ananda is the creative sensation of Sat and therefore the Psychic Being.

v       Sat inverts itself into Matter in its substance.

Sat in its sensation of consciousness becomes Ananda (Bliss).

Sat in its creative sensation becomes the Psychic Being.

Therefore, Matter is Delight of existence.

v       The involution of Sat into Matter is reversed as evolution of Matter, the Delight of existence tempting the hidden consciousness to discover the secret godhead of Sat.

v       Evolution is possible as all the planes from Sat to Matter are of the same substance – The Spiritual substance.

v       Chapter 28 is written separately. Here ends the argument of the first book.

 

Construction of the BOOK.

 

 

Book I of 28 Chapters	-	Omnipresent Reality converts Itself into The Universe.
Book II of 2 parts each containing 14 chapters	-	The Infinite Consciousness becomes Ignorance making Spiritual Evolution possible.
Part I of Book II	-	Knowledge becomes Ignorance.
Part II of Book II	-	Ignorance having evolved into knowledge permits the Spirit to evolve out of it – This is Spiritual evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Argument

BOOK – I

 

The Omnipresent Reality decides to become the Universe and that is creation. Sachchidananda is that creation. Sachchidananda is that Omnipresent Reality described in Book I, Chapters 9-12. For that conversion, the Absolute uses the power of its consciousness, Maya Chapter 13. Supermind is the instrument of creation. Its creative process is Chapter 14. Its consciousness is Chapter 15 and the three poises it takes for that purpose is Chapter 16. Then appear Soul, Mind, Life and Matter. Chapter 17 is Divine Soul, 18 is Mind and Supermind, 19-22 are Life and 23 Psychic Being. Chapters 24 and 25 are Matter. Chapter 26 gives the principle of evolution, 27 the process and 28 the special process of Overmind. There are eight chapters before Sat. The first chapter begins with Man's aspiration and 2, 3, and 4 speak of the contradiction he sees between Spirit and Matter and how they are reconciled. Chapter 5 and 6 raise and resolve the contradictions between Subconscient and Superconscient as well as the Individual and the Universe. The origin of all these contradictions, ego, is Chapter 7. Chapter 8 only says reason devoid of senses is intuition, a finding of Vedanta.

 

BOOK  II – Part 1

 

The second stage of transition that is involution is the conversion of knowledge into Ignorance and its evolution back to knowledge of which the first stage is Omnipresent Reality becoming Infinite consciousness.

 

Chapter I	Knowledge of the whole is determined into Ignorance of the infinitesimal parts by Supermind. That determinism is really the determinism of Sachchidananda and the Absolute.
Chapter II	That Absolute is a whole when it is the Absolute or when it changes into the relative or form, finite, movement, manifestation or Time. It is the mind of partial vision that sees the parts of the Absolute and mistakes them for the whole and starts discussions.
Chapter III	As the Supermind takes 3 poises of God, Jivatma and ego, the Absolute is described here as ego, Purusha and the Transcendent, all of which are the same and seen inside.
Chapter IV	Creation unfolds itself as dualities one of which is positive and negative. There is nothing negative. To know the negative as positive is to know the Absolute.
Chapter V and VI	Were also written in 1940 maybe to offer a fuller explanation to the Mayavadins. They say there is no illusion but what they see as illusion is really Ignorance. Both the analogies they offer -- snake as rope and hallucination -- won't hold.
Chapter VII	For the first time here HE comes to the process of self-absorption in detail in the context of creation of Ignorance. This chapter explains the seven levels of Self-absorption to create 7 Ignorances which is further elaborated in the Chapter 'Boundaries of Ignorance'.
Chapter VIII and IX	These two chapters are on memory. The idea here is Self-Consciousness seeking Self-experience in Ignorance becomes the Ego which is served by memory to relate it to the past.
Chapter X	To appreciate Ignorance fully, one needs to know the stages of knowledge which are four.
Chapter XI	Boundaries of Ignorance.
Chapter XII	Ignorance begins when the Mind forget its origin Supermind.
Chapter XIII	The highest product of creation is Ignorance, which reaches its perfection in the Surface Mind through exclusive concentration.
Chapter XIV	Ignorance reaches its logical conclusion of evil when the simple contrary turns perversely into evil.

 

 

BOOK II --  Part 2

 

Chapter I	Either Jivatma or Paramatma is considered so far as God by Mind. To the higher vision of Supermind, Brahman that includes both is Reality.
Chapter II	No view of Life is acceptable if any part is excluded, even if it is the Transcendent.
Chapter III	To elaborate the theme of Chapter 5 of Book I, HE says Man is to unite God and Nature in himself.
Chapter IV	That unity needs new forms, an ascent and integration with the high.
Chapter V	The 7 Ignorances explained earlier should be converted into seven knowledges.
Chapter VI, VII and VIII	Now that the Spirit has become a whole, it begins to evolve through rebirth.
Chapter IX	The evolving inner Spirit compels the body consciousness too to evolve to house the grown Spirit.
Chapter X	One can now offer his findings to others and become a Spiritual Man.
Chapter XI	The Spiritual Man faces triple transformation.
Chapter XII	The dark substance of the physical can only be transformed by the luminous Substance above.
Chapter XIII	The Supramental Being is born.
Chapter XIV	Man, discovering himself to be Supermind (and not mind) that is conscious, full, universal, powerful, inward, surrenders seeking transformation which results in a Life Divine that can either be simple or luxurious. Hereafter evolution is from knowledge to greater knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

v       Suppose several devotees who have studied The Life Divine with abiding interest but still feel there is much uncovered ground join together in a discussion, each can enlighten others on points that are clear to them. If understanding every argument is the first sufficient reward, the participants here may largely qualify. If they must hold the entire essence of The Life Divine simultaneously in the mind as a single entity and as a possession of spiritual knowledge in the mental plane, none of the participants may fully qualify. Below as I imagine such a discussion, their exchanges are denoted as questions from someone and answers from any other person are shown as answer. No single questioner is there nor is there a single person answering all the time.

 

Q -           I have always found that a discussion on The Life Divine with anyone is enlightening. I seem to understand my own previous understanding better when I speak to others or listen to them.

A-             In speaking our own view to another, we tend to see their point of view a little and that is the source of enlightenment. Even to get to know all the terms He uses takes more than a few readings. Our tendency is to approach the book as a lay general reader. We forget it is philosophy of the highest watermark and it explains the YOGA of God in terms of the created universe.

Q-            If you have cleared some doubts on any of His terminology, I should like to hear.

A-             Initially during my several readings I never paid attention to the word Spirit. I took it for granted. In the chapter on Matter He mentions that He had explained Mind, Life and Spirit earlier. Of course, I read those chapters and felt I understood them as I read, but it never came to my mind what Mind or Life was. A thought suddenly struck me:  where does HE explain Spirit? It became a search. It took some time for me to discover the answer that as Truth is the objective status of Sat or Existence, Spirit is the experience of that Existence in objectifying Truth. To conceive of Spirit as the experience of Sat and to know that experience is the Substance out of which the universe is created was almost a revelation to me after five or six readings of the Book.

Q-            Then how can you differentiate the Spirit from the Soul?

A-             Sri Aurobindo says both are the same. What is Spirit in Transcendence is Soul in the Cosmos.

Q-            HE says everyone does not have a soul. HE also says there is no one in whom the Spirit is not there. It is confusing.

A-             Because the whole world is made by the Spirit, every man is made of Spirit. As soul is the growing spiritual entity in man's life, not all people have a developed Spirit which is soul.

Q-            Is there a difference between Being and Spirit?

A-             The very first creation in manifestation we call Sachchidananda. Its first aspect is Sat or Existence. The personal aspect of that Existence is the Existent, a being. Sri Aurobindo calls it Self-Conscious Being, Being for short. Spirit is the experience of that Being in objectifying itself. In us that Being is the Soul. Where the difference between Spirit and Being is not technically relevant, they are used interchangeably.

Q-            These linguistic significances with their attendant spiritual import are better explained as they arise. I have one important question. Why does the second book open with Cosmic Determinants?

A-             HE concludes the Book with 'Divine Life', which opens saying 'It is not Mind but the Supermind' that man represents. Our position is Mind created the world or Ego created the world; Karma is inescapable; death is inevitable; life is full of dualities etc., etc. These are all positions or perceptions of the Mind. HE takes just the opposite positions, in which who created the world assumes importance. Therefore HE opens the second book with Cosmic Determinants and declares the world is created by the Supermind.

Q-            If this is so, how do the subsequent chapters justify the sequence?

A-             The first part of Book II explains how ignorance became knowledge. Looked at from that view, it will explain itself.

Q-            Can anyone explain it?

A-    Chapter 13 is about the creation of Ignorance on the surface mind where it becomes complete ignorance.

Chapter – 12, Origin of Ignorance.

Chapter – 11, Boundaries of Ignorance.

Chapter – 10, four levels of knowledge.

After explaining in Chapter 7 how knowledge becomes Ignorance, HE goes through these stages.

Chapter 8 and 9 are about Self-consciousness of Ignorance by Self-Experience becoming Ego. They explain how ego is a centrally coordinating intelligence of Ignorance.

Q-            You have missed Chapter 14. Why?

A-             The high point of Ignorance is when it becomes evil.

Q-            That is interesting to conceive. Quite a philosophical conception.

A-             In the second chapter of Book II, HE continues the argument with which HE ended the first chapter that there is a Reality. The first chapter explains that Reality is a whole. The third chapter further explains that the whole contains the Transcendent and the universal and they are included in the Individual.

Q-            That was not the view of the Rishis because their instrument was mind. The Rishis have denied reality to the Individual. The crux of Sri Aurobindo's revelation lies there.

A-             The basic themes or ideas of Sri Aurobindo basically differ from the tradition in 7 or 8 ways or you can express it in 20 or 30 ways. Each chapter in its own way touches upon them, often all of them.

Q-            I know some of them; I would like to know all of them.

A-             As we said earlier about words, instead of making a list of them, if we take them up as and when they arise, the discussion will not lapse into an academic one.

Q-            In another fashion, I see Him doing it with Ignorance. His whole new basis is well described because of His new explanation of Ignorance.

A-             It is not merely a new way of explanation but a new and fuller perception of creation.

Q-            Such an important central issue in His philosophy He avoids in the entire first book. Even in the second book He comes to it only after 6 chapters.

A-             Until then, HE explains the expressions of Ignorance. He does so about ego too. As He explained Spirit, Mind, Vital, Matter and Supermind, treating each in a separate chapter or in a few chapters, He does not explain the constitution of Ego. In the chapter on Ego He tells us how to overcome it. In the chapter on Matter, He clearly implies the formation of ego but does not dwell on it.

Q-            Is there a secret about ego?

A-             Creation is in Force that issues out of Consciousness. Being and Consciousness are indivisible. Force is divisible. Mind divides the Force to create life and matter. It creates ego too.

Q-            He says it is ego which facilitates the One becoming the Many. The Spiritual Force becomes material force by the mind's perception. The mind divides that material force into atoms. As they are atoms of the material force, they cannot be resolved into spiritual force, which has its unatomic extension. The durable material force resisting division beyond the stage of atom is the physical ego.

A-             Here He distinguishes Matter from the status of Matter. The status of Matter has Unity, Matter does not have that unity.

Q-            Yes, I remember it is a point that always eludes me.

A-             Matter in Becoming has to act. For action, there must be movement. In unity that movement is not possible.

Q-            That makes it clear. As the world is a world of action and movement, there must be separation. Without separation, there is unity and status.

A-             In the earlier paragraph, HE says mind that divides also aggregates into several aggregates. All these aggregations are parts of the whole of Being. The moment they become a separate aggregate, that separation becomes real in its view.

Q-            So the ego is formed. To overcome that appearance of separation is for the knowledge to emerge out of Ignorance. We know of the married son conceiving of himself as a separate entity while he is really part of the family.

A-             Family is a concept, a value, an emotion which can never be divided. The Being is like the family. The newly married son needs to be independent for him to develop his creative, productive capacities.

Q-            When he is part of a joint family, all decisions are taken by the father. His capacities do not develop. It is necessary for him to go away, and if he remembers while away that he is part of the family, it enriches the family.

A-             This dividing function is of the Cosmic mind. That is why when ego dissolves the Cosmic Self reveals.

Q-            Cosmic Ignorance is beyond Temporal Ignorance. Does it means Cosmos is first created and Time and Space follow?

A-             It looks so. To substantiate it, I have no reference.

Q-            Can we say ego is in Time, Purusha is in the Timelessness and the Psychic is in the simultaneous Time?

A-             Yes. I think to understand every chapter in terms of these three dimensions is essential.

Q-            Of course. In a sense each chapter is conceived on that basis. In the last chapter, HE says this yoga can only be done inside and quotes the Upanishads in His support.

A-             The knowledge of this third dimension is not an essential aspect of the Upanishads though they had access to it often and used it at their own level. The instantaneous miraculousness belongs to the inner world. That comes in a chapter before.

Q-            The speed of this yoga is faster than light and it is inside. It is perhaps an INSIDE which includes the outside.

A-             It is that aspect which makes for integrality.

Q-            Perhaps there are two insides, one where the Purusha resides and the other, an all-inclusive one, where the Psychic resides. This theme pervades the whole book.

A-             To know conflict, form, movement, manifestation, etc. in this sense is essential to understand the Book.

Q-            The chapter 'Evolution of Man' follows rebirth, not precedes. What does it mean?

A-             To us man is what we know ourselves to be -- one who dies. It is the animal that dies or animal-like man who needs to seek another body to continue his experiencing.

Q-            So, Sri Aurobindo does not consider us to be human beings.

A-             Man is evolved, according to Him, when his spiritual evolution continues in the same body.

Q-            Does he mean only immortal man is man?

A-             For us spiritual man is one who is awake in his Spirit whom we call Jivanmukta. To him he is not yet a man. Only when he need not shed his body for his spiritual growth, i.e., when he attains immortality on earth, does he become a MAN.

Q-            What then does HE mean by Spiritual man?

A-             Spiritual Man, according to Him, is one who can help others to find their own Spirit after himself finding it. Where does the third dimension come here?

Q-            When man goes inside, the spiritual evolution he pursued in several bodies is transferred to his own body. It means the universe is transferred inside.

A-    Do we understand the three dimensions as

Human life is lived largely outside.

The Rishi goes inside to find his soul.

The third dimension finds the psychic and takes the Universe inside.

Q-       Let us look at it this way. Spiritual man is one who helps others find the Spirit. This is a tall order. Imagine a genius, rich man, or politician in high position trying to make others geniuses, rich or powerful. It is inconceivable. Spirit is out of the question. Presently God is not doing it! God in man can, He says, do it. It means God evolving in Man, is greater than what we presently know as God. After the chapter 'Triple Transformation' before the end there are two chapters. It is not clear how those chapters are there?

A-            You may remember that in the chapter you speak of – Triple Transformation – before arriving at the Supramental Transformation the distance and stages He traverses. It is a long route of spiritual labour. He goes through the stages of

The Psychic emerging in the mind from the ego.

The passages of inner mind and subliminal mind.

The vital psychic the physical psychic.

Above, the psychic needs to pass through the states of Silence, Light, Intuition and Knowledge.

As He says elsewhere, it is a considerable territory on which one has to wage a continuous war. Thus the chapter ends. It is not the birth of the Supramental Being or the complete conquest of the plane of Supermind.

Q-            Now, I remember He is abridging 30,000 years. Fifty years ago the Britisher left. We find him everywhere effectively. His investment in India tops the list of foreign investment and the British population here has increased.

A-             That is true. It leads us to the subject of transition. Usually when we speak of transition it is in the horizontal plane. Indian freedom itself is in a large sense such a transition. This is in the vertical plane crossing 4 planes in between, above the golden lid involving a transformation of not just the human being, but the entire lower hemisphere.

Q-            Is there any cardinal point there that strikes you?

A-    Two are there. One we discussed earlier.

1.       The luminous imperative overcoming the dark imperative.

2.       The outer shifting to the inner, thus bringing the whole of cosmos spiritually inside.

The slow evolution in Time by this shift reaches or overreaches the speed of Light. God's aim in creation is Joy where Bliss that is objectless changes into Delight that comes to stay in the objects. To maximise it, He inverted Himself into His very opposite so that emerging from there He will experience the greatest ecstasy. Hence the dark imperative of the Inconscience below inviting the bright luminosity of Superconscience above. The innumerable stages that precede it are not only important but difficult to comprehend.

Q-            'Our unity with the world being is the Consciousness of the Self' is a statement that requires explanation.

A-             If we go to the first principles, anything explains itself. The difficulty here can be solved if we try to understand the first of the 3 powers of creation, Self-conception.

Q-            This is the power of Maya.

A-             The question is what is Maya?

Q-            Maya is the consciousness of the Absolute.

A-             What then do we mean by consciousness?

Q-            Sri Aurobindo uses consciousness in the sense of Nature.

A-             HE calls Supermind as Nature of Sachchidananda.

Q-            Somewhere it is said consciousness is the Nature of Being.

A-             Is it the next stage known as Nature or consciousness?

Q-            Then Nature and consciousness are synonymous.

A-             The Self-conception creates several extensions of Sat.

Q-            They are four.

A-             Are they four or five?

Q-    Sat – Chit – Ananda

Brahman – Purusha – Ishwara.

Time and Space.

The Cosmic extension where the One becomes the Many.

The subjective and objective extension of Truth.

                                                                                                                                                                             TThe being becomes Substance while Sat objectivises itself, as the experiencing of the Being is Spirit.

A-             How does this extension occur?

Q-            By will or Self-conception.

A-             He says Maya is conceptively creative.

Q-            We take consciousness for granted and Ananda too for granted. Can we not ask the question what it is to be conscious?

A-             If we go inversely from Supermind, let us say when Sat wants to comprehend itself, Sat becomes its Nature Supermind, or its Truth becomes conscious of itself.

Q-            The question arises as to what is Truth.

A-             What one objectively comprehends of himself is his Truth.

Q-            On the lines of describing Supermind as Sat comprehending itself, can we not say Ananda is its (Sat's) sensing Itself and consciousness is Sat being conscious of Itself.?

A-    If we take the position that Brahman needs nothing but it can choose to be anything and that is its absoluteness, we can extend that absoluteness to Sat -- in fact to everything – and say--

—        Sat is existence and can exist without being conscious of Itself or sensing Itself or comprehending Itself.

—        As Brahman chose to exist, Sat chooses to be conscious of Itself; the result is consciousness.

—        Sat or consciousness chooses to sense Itself and that sensation is Ananda.

—        Sachchidananda chooses to know or comprehend Itself and that is the Supermind.

—        Then we can say each successive stage is the Nature of the previous one or the consciousness of the previous stage.

—        To be conscious of oneself is to express one's Nature or power.

—        One can choose to be conscious of Himself or NOT.

Q-            Can we say these two correspond to Time and Timelessness.

A-            The third dimension – the Simultaneous integrality of Time and Timelessness – is the Unity rediscovering itself in multiplicity.

Q-            The Rishis reached by their mind partial Perception of the Brahman – one aspect of Sachchidananda – in Samadhi. There is a beyond.

A-            The Supermind in man can have the experience of the Totality of Brahman in waking consciousness.

Q-            Won't it be in samadhi?

A-            When THAT is there awake in man, how can man be unconscious?

Q-            So, consciousness is to be conscious of the third dimension where Brahman takes birth.

A-            Then, Unity is the consciousness of the Self.

Q-            Unity with the world being is the consciousness of the Self.

A-            Which is, the Self is conscious of Itself in the world being while it is fully united.

Q-            So, what is Truth–Consciousness?

A-            Truth, conscious of itself in Timelessness or in Time in the cosmos is Truth-consciousness.

Q-            So, evolution is the Truth conscious of itself in matter, life or mind.

A-            Unity, totality, fullness and the consequent JOY are achieved by the highest expressing Itself perfectly in the lowest.

Q-            So, what will you call man, the conscient?

A-            What the unmanifest Brahman wants to recognise – Himself -- in the manifest Brahman is Man, the conscient.

Q-            That means man's unsatisfied desires of Ignorance that he has tasted in creation keep him in creation.

A-            The unsatisfied desires can be called Taste of Ignorance or man's choice or Nature's slow deliberate pleasure or his unconscious patience.

Q-            What, then, is the ANSWER!

A-            It is there for the asking. You can have it if you want.

Q-            Is it true of everything?

A-            It is true of supramentalisation, genius, luck, or solving problems or of anything.

Q-            Do you see it as such?

A-            I see it. Seeing is different from doing.

Q-            I am unable to see it.

A-            If you want, you can see it.

Q-            So great a thing, so easily attainable. It is baffling!

A-            It is great as it is beyond, not so great when you are that.

Q-            That is what HE and SHE offer us.

A-            Increasingly so.

Q-            Are we that blind?

A-            We enjoy being blind.

Q-            So, we have to enjoy SEEING That?

A-            How do we know we enjoy it?

Q-            If we so enjoy, that Energy, the evolutionary energy will be released in us.

A-            That is why Mother insists on cheerfulness.

Q-            Cheerfulness is the positive vital energy.

A-            The first realisation is to realise that the subliminal moves the surface.

Q-            Our surface, the end of our surface mind is the vitality.

A-            So, we are there always. We can choose to be either in the human vital or in the vital psychic.

Q-            What makes for the difference?

A-            Decision, choice, aspiration.

Q-            How long will it take to realise it after such a choice?

A-            Instantaneously.

Q-            Mother is not in favour of instantaneous conversions.

A-            There will be an instantaneous OPENING making it clear to you that it is possible – the possibility shows itself as actuality for a second or for some hours or a day. And then you have to work to make it full, permanent.

Q-            That can't be instantaneous?

A-            It can be, if the subconscious preparation is there.

Q-            Then, in the absence of that subconscious preparation instantaneous result is not possible.

A-            It is not impossible, if Faith is there.

Q-            So, Faith prepares the subconscient too.

A-            In a way, it is HE awaking in the inconscient that we see as Faith.

Q-            Is it the Hour of God HE speaks of.

A-            Now, HE is awake in the inconscient, ready to bring about the instantaneous change in us.

Q-            HE is awaiting that choice of ours.

A-            HE waited in vain.

Q-            If we awake Now?

A-            It remains to be seen.

Q-            It is the greatest HOUR for the earth, not only man.

A-            The aim of our meeting now where everyone of us is raising a point and every other person is answering is to take a look at the chapter where HE brings this point of view.

Q-            Sure, in each chapter, HE brings out this point of view in several ways. Can someone tell me all those ways?

1.       The third dimension of Time.

2.       Reconciliation of contradictions.

3.       Not to stop the inquiry.

4.       Reconciliation at the cosmic and Transcendent consciousness.

5.       Reaching the opposite without losing hold of what you have.

6.       NOT to exclude what one has exceeded.

7.       To unite the above and below in us.

8.       To unite the world and ourselves.

9.       Not to give the egoistic response.

10.    Sift the reason from senses.

11.    To see the ocean of energy.

12.    To see the small and big are the same.

13.    To see no beginning and no end.

14.    To understand the meaning of waste.

15.    To see life in Matter.

16.    To see the Ananda expressed in objects.

17.    Life is amoral.

18.    To move to the subtle and causal planes.

19.    To see we create what we want,  Thathasthu.

20.    To see the one consciousness splits into three -- knower, knowledge, known.

21.    God, Jivatma, Ego are the three poises of the Supermind.

22.    God is in all; all is in God; all is in each, each is in all.

23.    Mind is born when Supermind splits into two. Ignorance is born when Mind loses its contact with Supermind.

24.    Mind is the inversion of Supermind.

25.    Life is the inversion of consciousness.

26.    Incapacity by exertion becomes capacity.

27.    Life takes the bodily sensation to the mind to convert it into thought so that body will obey it.

28.    The force and consciousness that are separate in Life will rejoin by evolution at the level of consciousness.

29.    Ananda inverts as psychic being.

30.    The four above invert as the four below.

31.    Evolution is possible because all the eight planes are of the same substance.

32.    The world is created by the Supermind, not mind.

33.    The Reality is ONE, mind sees its aspects and mistakes them for the Whole.

34.    The Eternal is the Individual.

35.    The Absolute never ceases to be the Absolute.

36.    The law of contradiction cannot be the final arbiter.

37.    Not time but Supermind has created the world.

38.    Unless the world is divinely explained, we won't understand creation.

39.    The negative is not the opposite of the positive, but what is not covered by it.

40.    There is no illusion, but there is Ignorance.

41.    Mind cannot conceive of non-existent things.

42.    Ignorance is the inversion of knowledge.

43.    Analysis of action reveals the ego and Purusha when it moves away from action.

44.    Reality is wholly known only when the Spirit and Nature are discovered on the surface and in depth.

45.    The four types of knowledge are knowledge by identity, intuition, subliminal knowledge and knowledge of the surface.

46.    Original, Cosmic, Egoistic, Temporal, Psychological, Constitutional and practical Ignorance are its seven types.

47.    Ignorance is not there in any of the eight planes of creation. It begins by mind forgetting Supermind.

48.    Ignorance which is completed on the surface mind is the highest product of creation.

49.    The simple contrary changes perversely into complex evil.

50.    Matter is Delight of existence.

51.    Ignorance, inertia and division oppose the evolution of Matter.

52.    Life must include the Transcendent.

53.    God and Nature must consciously unite in man.

54.    So united, they should ascend and integrate themselves into higher forms.

55.    Man emerges into seven-fold knowledge from seven-fold Ignorance.

56.    Karma is of the Force, not of the Being.

57.    The Spirit evolves to return to its origin.

58.    Rebirth is inevitable if the Spirit is to evolve.

59.    To raise the consciousness of the body to house the evolved Spirit is to evolve man.

60.    Man who has discovered the Spirit can serve the world by allowing others to learn it from him.

61.    Transformations are three – Psychic, Spiritual, and Supramental.

62.    The dark imperative of the physical substance can be handled only by the descending luminous imperative.

63.    Shifting to the inner from the outer, the instantaneous miraculousness arises.

64.    Transformation that is inevitable is attained by the only known method of Surrender.

65.    God has created the world for Ananda.

66.    Unity with the passive Brahman is not the end;

Unity in Multiplicity is the ultimate realisation.

67.    One without the Second, All is Brahman are reconciled in the Brahman that is born in the Becoming. It is the discovery of the Being of the Brahman that is Becoming.

68.    There is no pain or darkness in creation.

69.    The fulfilment of Ishwara is in his surrendering to Shakti.

      70.   The aim of creation is to express the inexpressible in the perfect form evolved in Force.

Q-            The full realisation of any one of them moves the man into the causal plane through the subtle plane and he is face to face with the Marvel of Supramental life for a short while.

A-            One who makes it permanent will have realised all the above realisations.

Q-            Is it not worthwhile to discuss, analyse, explain, illustrate each of the above 70 statements in the light of 1) What is said in the chapter and, 2) Our daily experience?

A-            Yes, and one can be explained in terms of the other. If each of us exercises our minds, we can go through all this and bring up the few that are left out.

Q-            Is anything left out?

A-            It may not be exactly. That the intellect, intuition and integral experience are the 3 stages is not mentioned.

Q-            Yes. I see the distinction between the immortality of the soul and that of the body can be brought out.

A-            Well, it will be nice to be exhaustive. When about ten ideas are analysed the significance of the rest can be seen.

Q-            It can be a repetition of the process beyond ten points if we confine ourselves to one fixed pattern.

A-            As the process extends to essence and essence penetrates the substance and the substance has no known end, it can be a delightful enquiry, a rich soul satisfying spiritual experience, depending upon the level of discussion.

Q-            Sri Aurobindo added Chapter 28 to the first book in 1940 as HE felt HE could add to the magnificent original.

A-            Yes, HE sometimes contemplated completing Synthesis of Yoga which means the scope is unfinished.

Q-            We know HE said HE could continue the serialisation for 70 years.

A-            What did HE mean by that?

Q-            As everything in creation is infinite, explanation too is infinite.

A-            Let us have a greater description of the Psychic.

Q-            That will be excellent. Also similar explanations of Spirit, Supermind, Mind, Life and Matter are welcome.

A-            I was thinking whether the Process of Creation in the upper hemisphere can be again taken up in greater detail in the course of the above descriptions and an attempt made to exhaust every term and shade of a term HE employs.

Q-            I don't get what you say.

A-            HE speaks of fundamental spiritual aspects and their principles and powers.

Q-            In one place HE says our unity with the world being is the consciousness of the Self.

A-            He distinguishes between the Supracosmic and the term Superconscient.

Q-            At the end of the chapter Matter, HE refers to Self-presentation.

A-            If remembering the forgotten Self is the JOY HE seeks, how does Grace act and why is another question.

Q-            Another idea is Love is thrown to restore the last link.

A-            Maybe the comprehension of the infinite in the finite and its perception and sensation are of importance.

Q-            The exercise of the mind may jerk open the lost link with the Supermind.

A-            The double opening which HE refers to about the ascent and descent of the psychic and the one HE refers to in the creation of the Many from the One are evolutionary ideas. If they could be seen in the light of all these 70 odd statements, it will be nice.

Q-            As you say, there is no end to them. That we should get at something significant is essential.

A-            I would go further. If these discussions can be extended a little, if not thoroughly, to our life of war, poverty, pollution, terrorism, world union, socialism, morality, values, ROMANCE, and mental peace, it can make the process lively. Include genius too.

Q-            Well, let us take a random look and take statement No.6. 'Not to exclude what is exceeded.' To go ahead, this looks contradictory. What is the import of this statement? Where does the third dimension come here?

A-            The soul of man arises or awakes when man exceeds all the lower parts – mind, life and body.

Q-            Is it not a stupendous effort one in a million achieves.

A-            It is. The soul thus detached from other parts of the being, is said to exceed them. Having escaped the clutches of those lower parts, it journeys in pursuit of the Super soul, its origin, God or Spirit or the Superconscient. This is the Indian tradition.

Q-            All right. Sri Aurobindo enters the scene with Integral yoga and asks for the simultaneous liberation of all the parts. What I do not understand here is, the soul is liberated from mind and body; what is the body liberated from?

A-            This is a new concept and as new territory in yoga. Sri Aurobindo says the body itself has the soul immanent in it.

Q-            That we have heard as the physical purusha, Annamaya Purusha.

A-            Annamaya Purusha is the bodily part of the central being, the Jivatma and therefore it is the non-evolving soul.

Q-            Is there a soul of the body apart from Annamaya Purusha?

A-            The soul here referred to is not the developed soul as Annamaya Purusha but the immanent Spirit in the body.

Q-            What is it called?

A-            That comes into existence from immanence when its experience gathers as essence. That soul takes shape when that essence gathers, not until then.

Q-            Sri Aurobindo calls it Psychic Being, its physical part as physical psychic, very difficult of formation.

A-            That Psychic begins its formation in the mind as mental psychic and at the end of the journey the physical psychic arises.

Q-            I have heard that when the physical psychic flowers in the physical substance, it is the Supramental Being. The yogi who seeks moksha, disregards all these possibilities, the parts of being exceeded – and the possible emergence of their respective psychic beings – and reaches after the Spirit. So, Sri Aurobindo is not for the partial upward movement. He is for the downward movement.

A-            No, it is a simultaneous double opening -- the downward movement reaching the vital, physical and their substances while the upward movement evolves the psychic beings proper to each level of the Spiritual mind range, till the Supermind is reached where it becomes the Ishwara or Supramental Being.

Q-            Please explain the third dimension.

A-            We live in Time, the first for us.

Q-            The Rishi seeks the Timeless dimension, the second.

A-            Because he seeks the Being -- the unevolving Being.

Q-            The third dimension is not our life of Becoming, not the goal of the Rishi -- the Being -- but the Being of the Becoming, the Psychic which is the essence of soul experience of our mind.

A-            It would be interesting to raise the question of contradiction here.

Q-            Man and his world are in conflict in our life. That is clear.

A-            Of course, the Rishi in pursuit of Being avoids that conflict.

Q-            Does the psychic being bring in the complementary element? If so, what is the complement of what?

A-            The emerging psychic is NOT in conflict with its world. It is obvious it is in harmony with its environment.

Q-            Now I see it is our ego that brings in the conflict.

A-            Withdrawing the ego, allowing the psychic, creates harmony and makes the conflicting elements, Man and the world, into complements.

Q-            It is so simple to say" Don't quarrel, be good".

A-            This is of interest. 'Don't quarrel' is not in the third dimension, it is in the first dimension where ego remains the ego in Becoming but subdued.

Q-            A subdued ego, of course, cannot be the evolving soul. That is, the normal good behaviour of not quarrelling is not the thing. The psychic emerging, not being able to quarrel is the thing.

A-            What are the other sides from which we can discuss this?

Q-            In our list, one important item is missing. It is 'Unity, Truth, Goodness, Knowledge, Power and Love' should all be full before the work is complete.

A-            The soul going to Spirit is to exercise its power of detachment. Obviously, Unity is not there, nor is the Love. Knowledge here means knowledge of the totality. It is not there.

Q-            What does this list signify?

A-            They represent the three aspects of Sachchidananda.

Q-            Outer-inner. Which is outer?

A-            Inside all the four parts – mind, etc. – are one. Only outside are they separate. Integral Yoga can be called entirely a yoga of the inner consciousness.

Q-            More explanations please.

A-            The inner is not only total and integrated, it is also fast.

Q-            Even moksha abridges several hundred years into one life. Man may attain moksha slowly. Why, what about integral yoga? Where is its speed? No one comes near consecration in 50 years.

A-            Speed is NOT in shifting from outside to the inside. The speed is seen after the shift is effected.

Q-            Can you illustrate?

A-            Sri Aurobindo completed Raja Yoga in 3 days, all Indian yogas in 6 years.

Q-            I would like the example from others.

A-            There is no one doing yoga for us to illustrate. We can show feeble examples where the speed of the Force can be seen.

Q-            That I know. What takes years or months is done in a trice by the Force. I don't see where the shift comes and how.

A-            When the prayer changes into consecration, the outer prayer disappears. Whether it goes inside or not, we don't see. It does go in. That generates the speed.

Q-            Egoistic response?

A-            Moksha is realisation of the ego. Therefore it must be shunned.

Q-            Though we all have read much on Jivatma, let us discuss it.

A-            The word Jivatma in the tradition means the soul of man that has no reality seeks release from its embodied being and disappears into the Spirit. Sri Aurobindo confers eternity on it and says it is, in spiritual fact, the Eternal. We see Him using the word Jiva and Jivatman when the context explains the limited connotation. In discussing the soul of man HE invariably called it the individual. In other places HE calls it the Central Being.

Q-            That is good. Why does HE do so?

A-            The Sankhya speaks of one Prakriti and many Purushas. Sri Aurobindo says there are not many Purushas but only one. It is the world Purusha. The world  Purusha seen inside is the Supreme, the Transcendent, the Self-conscious Being. It is this Being that is seen in man as his central being. Further, man sees his own ego as his Purusha.

Q-            Please explain from the point of view of the tradition.

A-            In the tradition mind sees the One either as One or the Many. Mind sees two aspects of the One successively and takes them to be two different entities. It is just like seeing an officer in the office of the police station and seeing the same man on the beach with his family in plain clothes. Both are the same man. Mind is capable of thinking they are two different individuals.

Q-            How does this distinction or error affect our yoga or life?

A-            When you see different persons as different individuals, it can foster selfishness. 'Jivatma and Paramatma are one' has a further consequence that all Jivatmas are one and this facilitates selflessness or even self-giving.

Q-            Good will and Self-giving are, then, an easy passage to the Supermind.

A-            Yes, it is very true. But here, too, there is something of importance. Mother says all wills are ill-will.

Q-            Why?

A-            Mind is an instrument of ignorance. It acts through ego. Naturally, mental will is not good will.

Q-            Will the third dimension come here?

A-            Yes. What we call third dimension is the Supramental plane. Yogically it is called the causal plane. Sri Aurobindo calls the powers of that plane Self-existent.

Q-            What is Self-existent?

A-            Light is the opposite of darkness. It is a light of the plane where light dwells with darkness.

Q-            I have read darkness or shadow needs light, but light does not need shadow.

A-            In the higher hemisphere Light is there; there is no darkness. Here light is a force, not the opposite of darkness. That HE calls Self-existent.

Q-            In that case, it can be said of love, knowledge, goodness, etc.

A-            Yes. The Infinity of the Absolute is thus Self-existent Infinity, though to the Absolute we cannot attribute even so high a quality as infinity.

Q-            Having a Self-existent GOOD will is desirable.

A-            It is a common saying that we wish everyone well – lokakshemam. In practice, it becomes lip service.

Q-            Then our traditional ideal is great.

A-            It is. Here we raise it to a plane of consciousness that is new to the world, non-existent so far.

Q-            What is important is the third dimension.

A-            The level of our consciousness is important.

Q-            Can there be life examples?

A-            In teaching, it is well brought out. Teaching for us is to tell the pupil what we know. The Spirit of teaching is what the child learns on its own.

Q-            Does it make such a difference?

A-            That is the difference between the genius and an ordinary child.

Q-            Genius? You mean to say genius is learning all by oneself?

A-            A child that learns by itself will ask non-stop questions to which no one knows the answer.

Q-            How can a child ask questions to which the adult knows no answer.

A-            An adult knows what he is taught. He is not trained to think.

Q-            The child thinks on its own.

A-            That opens the mind of the child to the environment.

Q-            More than thinking, the mind's capacity to learn by seeing is great is what you mean.

A-            How long does the camera film take to register?

Q-            In that case, the child is very fast.

A-            The pity is he is learning of the adult environment – the false surroundings.

Q-            If we do not impose on the child subtly, you mean he will grow into a genius?

A-            Since 1956 it is eminently possible. To save the child from the adult, social environment is impossible.

Q-            Can we not do it by encouraging curiosity?

A-            Not to impose yourself on the child is very very great.

Q-            It is true of Goodwill.

A-            To wish, rather to let that WISH arise from inside – Good will for another -- is to be divine.

Q-            How does good will get that power?

A-            Truth of Sat and knowledge of Chit merging give birth to GOODNESS.

Q-            You mean goodness is the knowledge of Truth.

A-            So, the secret lies in Truth.

Q-            Truth is Sat in objectivity.

A-            A child will become a genius if the inner power is evoked.

Q-            So a statue becomes god.

A-            Exactly, in the statue the priest invokes the hidden power.

Q-            In the child, the divine power, inherent in him, rather immanent in him emerges.

A-            The only culprit is the social environment, the PARENT.

Q-            Getting rid of the social consciousness is the thing.

A-            Like the fish escaping water. Beyond the social consciousness lies the moral consciousness.

Q-            You mean ethical values.

A-            Mother calls the conscience an adversary.

Q-            Simple GOOD will, when it is raised to the third dimension is that powerful.

A-            Anything raised to that dimension is powerful.

Q-            How to do it?

A-            In life we think, the Rishi concentrates, we consecrate.

Q-            I thought consecration is elementary.

A-            Have you ever tried it successfully?

Q-            A powerful SILENCE descends on me.

A-            That is true consecration.

Q-            That is more meaningful than all the 70 points of The Life Divine.

A-            Is not The Life Divine powerful?

Q-            We approach it only mentally.

A-            Consecration is spiritual.

Q-            Can't we read The Life Divine spiritually?

A-            That would be to read it like Swami Vivekananda. He took a book and then read the first line. At once the entire book entered him.

Q-            That is beyond man. Let us go back to the 70 points.

A-            Point 44 says to know Reality we need to know Spirit and Nature above and below.

Q-            Now we know Nature on the surface, Spirit below. To know both in both the places is to know it totally.

A-            A simple analogy will make it clear. We know a man in his office. It is his official personality. When we know him in his house, it is his private personality. Knowing him in both the places is to know him fully.

Q-            That helps. Such illustrations help vastly. But, I have a feeling that there is a further dimension.

A-            You mean the third dimension?

Q-            Maybe yes or maybe not. To bring out the theoretical significance fully in the example will make the understanding perfect.

A-            Of course, we tried it in money. It came out very well.

Q-            No. 17 says life is amoral. Sri Aurobindo gives this argument in the chapter on 'Delight of Existence.' He points out that when we judge amoral life by moral standards we confuse ourselves. Delight is not moral, rather it is above moral codes. If we subject Delight to the judgement of moral codes, we do violence to it. When we withdraw from such an attitude, our understanding is no longer warped. Such a free understanding is needed to know the Delight.

A-            Do any of us have a question here? If not, let me raise mine.

Q-            My question is not directly relevant. I wish to know whether it can be explained to me that the man seeking the objects misses delight.

A-            That is the third dimension.

Q-            Let me elaborate my question. Bliss is above in Sachchidananda. He says it is transient. It is Matter that gives permanence to Bliss when it expresses through Matter. Expressing through Matter, Bliss becomes Delight. Man misses the Delight seeking the objects. Do not objects carry delight? Why should he miss it?

A-            One who aims at a degree misses education.

Q-            Does he not receive education to deserve a degree?

A-            Of course, he does get something. Maybe a crude analogy will illustrate. Today in India, one can get a degree for a payment of some money.

Q-            That of course illustrates. He gets a paper and if that paper gets him a job, he will be exposed. If his fraud comes out, he will end up in jail.

A-            The example is vulgar but serves the purpose.

Q-            I would like to understand through a good example.

A-            A child is an object of affection. To look upon a son as a source of income often brings in a daughter-in-law who also looks upon him so and takes him away.

Q-            Will not the third dimension come in here?

A-            A son is a soul. Our relationship with another soul is to give Love in exchange for Love. That way relationship with a son enhances the level of one's consciousness. The relationship ceases to be mercenary or even biological and enters into the realm of spirituality.

Q-            It is clear, but not tangible.

A-            Have you ever given yourself to another?

Q-            It never occurred to me.

A-            Man's existence can be delightful. His level of delight is enhanced by the quality of his Self-giving. Self-giving to the Divine is the highest. That is excelled by the Self-giving to the Divine in man.

Q-            Can we not come down to earth?

A-            Love thy neighbour can be a golden rule.

Q-            In India women once treated husbands as gods.

A-            Why, the employer was called Aanday, God. Women all over the world had the same social attitude to men as in India. They gave it up a hundred years ago. American women of the last century would not speak out the name of their husbands.

Q-    Pain – Bliss – Delight are the three dimensions.

Selfish smallness gives rise to pain. Spiritual aloofness releases Bliss unrelated to life. Selfless living where the rule of Self-giving is practised transforms pain into Delight.

A-            That is clear.

Q-            We see two opposite trends in the world. One is every ethnic group demands a state of its own and is ready for war with those who deny it. Another is no democracy goes to war on its own initiative. Can we look at this phenomenon from one of these 70 points or any other writing of Sri Aurobindo?

A-            The Life Divine is a document that argues for Freedom, a Freedom after the full scope of imprisonment. The Absolute that is utterly free voluntarily loses its freedom in involution and gains it in evolution. The ethnic minorities cherish their cultural identities. Others enjoy denying them, and would rather crush the minorities. We see wherever the minorities enjoy increasing freedom they enjoy integrating with other sections of the population, which is seen in the democracies shunning war.

Q-            How do these two come together?

A-            Democracy assures freedom. Freedom loves to expand freely as is evidenced in the European Union. Encourage the free expression and growth of the language, the culture of the minorities, assure them free play, not as a concession but as their right, and their energies will be absorbed in developing their own culture.

Q-            The contradiction is not resolved for me.

A-            The future of the world is for freedom -- political, cultural, racial and all types of freedom. In such a land of freedom, the ethnic groups live in greater amity. The tendency to separation is next to nil. Increasing freedom to the intense vital urges of ethnic description blunts the edge of pugnacity which leads to shunning war. Democracy has arisen as its institutional symbol in politics.

Q-            Can we say, then, this corresponds to the theme of Unity in Multiplicity?

A-            Yes, That theme, which is the Master's special emphasis, needs to be understood in greater clarity.

Q-    Unity of the Being is static.

Multiplicity does not abrogate unity.

Unity is the background, multiplicity is to the fore.

Unity in multiplicity is not static, but active, rather an active unity based on static security.

      Unity in multiplicity is a unity of a higher level capable of greater enjoyment functioning in the third dimension.

A-            Put in this light, it looks simple.

Q-            If the parallel is drawn to ethnicity, things fall in place.

A-            Can this be extended to education?

Q-            School prepares children to become fit members of the society in one given field. It is a particular efficiency. If brought up in increasing freedom, they can acquire higher efficiency to become fit members of any field.

A-            Very much as the IAS officer is fit to preside over any department.

Q-            In the IAS they choose the brightest and train.

A-            Here, we can train all to be the brightest and give not only administrative training but training in life.

Q-            A detailed consideration will be interesting. Moreso to see the spiritual principles express there will be an experience of the unusual.

A-            I wish to listen to all the aspects concerned.

Q-            It is better to carry the parallels as far as possible. Presently administrators are not specially trained, army officers are. A good general education is enough equipment for one to train himself as an able administrator.

A-            What is the truth here?

Q-            Educated mind, educated in language, history, geography, and scientific thinking will be able to rise to any social occasion. It is true to some extent, not fully. That is why people fit into one area of life.

A-            It follows that, if education can be so planned as to include all facets of life, the boy will meet any, or at least most of the situations in life.

Q-            The Rishi develops the Spirit, neglecting mind, life and body.

A-            Still, the all-inclusive nature of Spirit enables most of these spiritual men –swamis – to have a greater comprehension of life.

Q-            Here comes the principle of integral yoga.

A-            The urban life is inclusive of multiple expertise in some measure. When spirituality is integral theoretically, it is really all-inclusive. Again children in affluent houses or houses of people in power, say a high placed official, are bold, not timid, and are able to meet far more new situations effectively.

Q-            That is self-evident. I see, what you are suggesting is what these urban children get unconsciously or in an unorganised fashion the school must organise to acquire consciously. That is good. Where does Sri Aurobindo and the 70 points of The Life Divine come?

A-            Metropolis, official house offer social experience. What is offered here is Supramental Consciousness.

Q-    Let us see what the grades are.

Social experience is concrete but social consciousness is superior to social experience, though not as concrete.

A-            One is like the pharmacist's experience in the hospital and the other is like medical education.

Q-            The distance is great, but even social consciousness is vital consciousness. Beyond this lie the mental, higher mental, illumined mental, intuitive mental and overmental before one reaches the Supramental consciousness. Obviously one who understands this will find evolving a system for this purpose not so very impossible. Still, my question remains.

A-             Life rises by consciousness; consciousness progresses by organisation.

Q-            That answers my question. Once the higher consciousness is there and one sets about organising to deliver the intended goal, the rest can be worked out. All these 70 principles will guide us in organising better. But I do not have even one example in my mind.

A-            Let us consider a tough principle of the dark and luminous imperative, No. 62 of our list. The easiest is to teach facts. The most difficult is a complex philosophical idea. All these our system is well equipped to teach at the appropriate ages. But that entire range is mental. Vital attitudes we know are not that easy. Beyond lie the physical habits, especially the dark, negative, aggressive, hostile attitudes in kids. Either we must stop with mental education or going down to teach him character, this principle tells us of the infinite patience that is called for.

Q-            Please illustrate.

A-            Let us take a well known but rigid habit of miserliness. A child that is eminently trained to preside over a billion dollar corporation very early in life, will surely miss that opportunity because of this miserliness. Miserliness is not only in money. It will rise as an incurable rigidity in a hundred places and early in his career he will be marked out as one who is extraordinarily talented but is not fortunate enough to rise.

Q-            The school can choose not to handle that characteristic. Or, when it chooses to, it must know that only the teacher who can bring that luminous imperative can handle this dark imperative.

A-            It is necessary that that teacher must be generous – the opposite of miserliness – but also infinitely patient to await the response of the child, without urging him in any direction.

Q-            You will add the extra requirement that that generosity is not a mere habit – which is physical – or born out of an idealism – which is mental, but out of the inner light of illumination from above.

A-            That way we see the scope of work, its arduous nature, and their theoretical reasons. Such an understanding will yield the desired results.

Q-            This is too much, especially for the teacher. Let us not go beyond to other dimensions or extensions.

A-            No. 12 says the big and small are equal. Of course, we know His example of the solar system and ant hill. What is its import?

Q-            It means the same amount of energy goes into the making of both. In addition, that is the entirety of Brahman.

A-            Here lies one of the unspoken truths or secrets, rarely noted by the reader.

Q-            What is it?

A-            When we hear all are Brahman, we know all are made of Brahman. It never struck me until this minute that each of us, as well as each thing, is the entire Brahman, a whole universe comprising all the planes from the gross material to the Transcendent.

Q-            To realise Brahman is, then, to know ourselves as an infinite universe and cosmos?

A-            Till now I never saw it in that light.

Q-            I understand that a dull boy and an intelligent boy are endowed with the same energy and, if one brings the required expertise to bear upon, the dull can equally become intelligent.

A-            In a school, it is an achievement.

Q-            At home, if a retarded child can be made normal, that is a miracle. That much of application is apparent.

A-            The same principle holds good in changing a losing concern into a profitable one.

Q-            Though they are all vast achievements in life, they are petty before the pregnant impact of this statement. It means I am one centre of the universe that can have intercourse in the spiritual plane with all such universes.

A-            It means more. I can see all those universes inside. He goes to the final step, one that the list missed, that the Spirit can move Matter. (p 1039 of The Life Divine)

Q-            That is a Mastery only God has now. If we, as we are, seek it, it will be ambition. To seek it rightly, one sheds his ego.

A-    Even the principle that Jivatma is Paramatma is about this. The process is simple to describe.

Shed the ego.

See the World Purusha individualising in us.

See it outside and inside.

Inside you can see that the world Purusha is truly the Transcendent.

Q-            Only two have shed their ego. Even for the first step one has to become the third person in the world.

A-             What about the Vedic Rishis who have shed their ego?

Q-            During their time, Mind itself was not there. The ego they shed was the vital, physical ego not the mental or spiritual ego.

A-             The argument in the descent that the physical ego is more difficult to shed will not apply to them, as there was no descent in those times.

Q-            In our list of principles, naturally we will not cover the methods, strategies, required conditions, etc.

A-             Yes, consecration, Silence, surrender, equality, being, becoming, knowing, enjoying, understanding, etc., are not covered here.

Q-            These are methods. What is a method?

A-             A method is that which converts energy into result.

Q-            Why did you include being as a method?

A-             In Supermind the aim is to be. Also in Sat, Sat exists not by energy or understanding but by being.

Q-            Is Silence a condition or method?

A-             It is a condition. In silent will we use it as a method.

Q-            If principles are implemented by methods what others are there in the process?

A-             It is true that in a plane – e. g. mental plane – there is a condition, which is mental existence, there is energy, which is mental energy, there is a method of thinking that gives understanding, there are faculties like memory, etc. and there are results, e.g. knowledge.

Q-            So, Plane, condition or status, energy, method, faculty, result are the things we have to study apart from the principles.

A-             What then is a principle?

Q-            A principle is an order in which acts take place in a given condition.

A-             Can't we say a principle is the wider law or method governing a wider area?

Q-            Maybe we can say all these are parts of which creation is the whole. We give convenient names.

A-             I wish our discussion is comprehensive as far as possible.

Q-            Then we will stay on one principle forever, but it has the advantage of fully being introduced to The Life Divine.

A-             It is possible to get all the aspects in all details from this discussion if we are patient and persistent. Or, one may prefer to get at the essentials and start reading and develop as we go through the book.

Q-            I felt the most difficulty in a few chapters of which Matter is one.

A-             That is a chapter on which I spent years and finally understood the key sentence on p.237 about creation of Matter. The rest remained ununderstood for a long time.

Q-            It is there HE explains the formation of ego.

A-             Yes, it is on the next page.

Q-            Most of our difficulties issue from the lack of training to read.

A-             Yes. Reading means for me reading. I would read ten pages and wonder what I read. We Indians do not know how to read.

Q-            It is a major defect.

A-             It never occurred to me for several years to ask myself what HE was explaining. No wonder I don't understand.

Q-            When I came to ask that question, I had no answer.

A-             In this chapter, HE declares HE explains the formation of Matter.

Q-            The explanation is in pp. 236, 237 and 238. Finally, when the arguments were less defying I found that there is no Matter but it is only Mind's appearance.

A-             Yes. That is what I too thought at first. Only in the view of Matter as explained on p.80, it is confusing. Viewing it from Mind, the confusion disappears.

Q-            Mind views Spirit. It views through the senses. Mind sees the Spirit through senses as Matter. So, Matter exists only for the vision of Mind, not elsewhere.

A-             That was what I thought too. There is a truth in it. If we persist in it, there is the danger of our landing in Mayavada, as essentially that is what they say.

Q-            I never thought of it. How else are we to look at it?

A-             Whatever is created in any plane is not confined to that plane. It is not as if it exists only in that plane.

Q-            I see now. It exists in that plane too. From each plane it looks different. We must look at it not from this plane or that but from the whole.

A-             For Mind it is Matter. For the Absolute, it is the Absolute unfolding in creation or involution.

Q-            Once we know the construction which is described in the fly leaves, it is a revelation, but the outline of the construction and details of the chapters are far apart. It takes time to abridge them.

A-             What is interesting in the chapter Matter is the masterful way in which HE summarises the position of Matter as Delight of Self-existence. He does so in the last paragraph.

Q-            A question I always had is Matter is Sat. He calls it Delight of existence. He used the small 'e' for existence.

A-             It is a question, of course.

Q-            Can anyone resolve it for me?

A-             Sat inverts itself as Matter. Ananda inverts itself as Psychic. The question is how does Delight become Matter or Sat.

Q-            Bliss is the sensation of Sat when it becomes conscious of its existence. Delight is Sachchidananda expressing Bliss in the objects. HE actually says objectless Delight expressing in objects is the aim of creation.

A-    Bliss is Delight of Self-Existence.

Delight is Delight of Self-existence as this existence is here.

Q-    Let us take that last para.

There is a conceptive Self-extension of being.

It becomes substance.

Mind creates matter out of this substance by division and aggregation.

This Matter is Being or Brahman.

It is a form or the force of conscious Being.

It is delight of being offering itself to the secret consciousness.

It is an object of sensation.

It tempts the hidden godhead.

Matter is Sachchidananda represented to His mental experience. It is a formal basis of objective knowledge, action and delight of existence.

A-             Matter is basis of knowledge, action and delight. That is how Sachchidananda inverts itself.

Q-            Something is clear. Let us wait till the end.

-               I am trying to think aloud to understand.

Q-            You say as Sat is inclusive of consciousness and Bliss, Matter here in the reverse order is inclusive of knowledge and delight.

A-             Put that way, it clears my doubt.

Q-            My doubt remains.

A-             Sat reverses as Matter. Matter, in evolution, reverses again to become Sat. That is the Delight for which HE started creation. His getting the Delight HE sought is seen in Matter beginning to evolve.

Q-            It is clearer still, but not fully. In the previous para HE says it is the status of Matter, not Matter itself.

A-             Matter is, as everything else, in both statuses of Being and Becoming. First HE says the division that ends in unatomic extension is the supramental status where Matter formed is in status, not in motion. To be in motion there needs to be separation as well as space between two things. The separation is created by the division and aggregation. There is space between two aggregates, making motion possible.

Q-            Your explanation does not help.

A-             Let us wait. Let us go to No.35 -- 'The Absolute' never chooses to cease to be the Absolute.

Q-            If all is Brahman, if Brahman became the world, if Brahman inverted itself to become creation, it is simple from his analogy of golden vessels from gold to understand the above statement.

A-             As long as we are able to see evil as absolute, there is no difficulty.

Q-            To understand there is no difficulty. It is the senses that see. They do not.

A-             In other words, the difficulty is to make the senses see what mind sees.

Q-            Does it amount to saying that the intellect is in the gross plane and senses in the subtle plane?

A-             It is. When the body sees, it emerges in the causal plane.

Q-            Is there no example?

A-             Magic is in the subtle plane. The magician takes us to the subtle plane, makes us see what he wants us to see and later we come back to the gross plane.

Q-            Sri Aurobindo says we can see the earth going round the sun in the universal and transcendental planes.

A-             The subtle plane when it extends to the whole universe reveals the earth going round. The Transcendental is in the causal plane.

Q-            Only in yogic experience can one see them, perhaps.

A-             There are moments in meditation when such things are revealed. It is safe for us to confine ourselves to mental explanations.

Q-            Spirit is a plane where we are free to quote what they have experienced.

A-             For us to fully appreciate this statement we can think of some examples. An Indian or Muslim wherever he goes and lives, basically remains an Indian or Muslim.

Q-            That anyone can readily agree with. What he cannot see is the Indian in USA acquires many American habits. His remaining an Indian is partial, though essential. In the example of Sri Aurobindo he says a vessel made of gold only changes its appearance, not the character of the metal.

A-             Analogies are helpful only in one point, not thoroughly.

Q-            We talk of the 3^rd dimension so much. Can we not explain this statement through that?

A-             The Brahman in our first dimension (these dimensions are valid only for our discussion and nowhere else) is Eternal, Infinite, Silent, immobile, inside us. In its second dimension it is Nature, sky, men, world, etc – Becoming, Prakriti, created world, etc., where it is Brahman in essence as well as appearance but does not appear to us, to our mind, as Brahman. In our 3^rd dimension again the Nature, sky, man, and world reveal themselves as Brahman even in its appearance, the Marvel HE speaks of. This is only words to us, not a reality.

Q-            This is more satisfactory. Is this what Sri Aurobindo saw in Alipore Jail?

A-             Yes. Mother says it is Supramental vision. The Viswarupa darsan that Krishna unveiled to Arjuna is a universal vision which had a positive side as well as the other hideous side. The cruel negative side is not there in the supramental vision. Everyone and everything was Narayana to HIM. I wish to find one life example that explains this.

Q-            When a child looks back at its life, it likes many things and does not like many other things. A psychologist, a yogi, an educationist will KNOW that every incident in the child's life was an occasion for education.

A-             If the child itself becomes one such, he will surely see that every little incident FULLY played its part in educating him. It serves some purpose, but not striking enough.

Q-            We can offer the scientific argument that everything is made up of atoms or everything is energy.

A-             That is better. Still they do not serve the purpose of an illuminating example. Let us move to another one. No.51 is 'Reality includes the One and the Many'.

Q-            We can compare the all-powerful government to the ONE and all the other activities of the society such as residential life, agriculture, trade, transport, education, etc. etc., the myriad non-government life to the Many – Jivatma, the Nature – and then say neither the government nor the non-government is the whole. The whole is the society that includes government and non-government.

A-             This is a good illustration.

Q-            We need to explain the position of the tradition and the position of Sri Aurobindo and draw the distinction point by point as this is of vast importance.

A-             For the present, this much looks good. As we said earlier, they could not see the whole with the mind. Hence, all the arguments they offered were amiss.

Q-            I wish we restate the position of Sri Aurobindo at least as a summary so that all our discussions will more effectively reflect that background.

A-             If you consider the Christian theology of one human life for the soul where the character of his life decides whether he goes to heaven or hell and the Indian position that it is out of original sin a soul takes its birth in the human body to work out its karma in innumerable lives to be liberated from the bondage to birth, Sri Aurobindo's position gains in clarity.

Q-            Sri Aurobindo says Man is a conscient being evolved out of inconscient Matter and half-conscient life, seeking to evolve into a Supramental Being.  He lives in a world of God's creation, rather God's revelation, of ignorance, suffering and pain with the choice of shedding the ego and the ignorance so that he may witness the unfolding marvel and continue his spiritual evolution.

A-             Once the framework is placed around our discussion, the essential confusions are less. The statement No.39 is of capital importance.

Q-    Who on earth will agree there is nothing negative?

The bombardments of wars are dreadful.

The nest of gangsters is NOT positive.

Children who desert their parents are no angels.

A trusted friend turning mercenary is no glory.

Crucifixion is no marvel.

Polluted atmosphere is not inviting.

A-             Their number is legion.

Q-            Our one argument is they are the appearances behind which lurks good and God. It is not appealing.

A-             If we can show the gangsters are gods, a virago wife is a sight to see, her words are music, the argument will be appreciated.

Q-            I think that possibility is there somewhere, not to be inferred.

A-             A teenager who has imbibed his own latest 'ideal' denouncing his parents as his utter ruin, will be to a learned, wise parent an expression deep affection inversely delivered. To his vision of wisdom, nothing but the boy's abiding love will be seen.

Q-            Rarely we see that circumstance between a couple who are passionately in love when a prejudice arises, leading to an ugly outburst from the less educated or less cultured partner. The ruling passion of love coupled with the knowledge that the other is smarting under a wound inflicted by a false information, receives every expression of the outburst with a supreme sense of humour. Each sting delivered will be seen as a greater bondage forged.

A-             They are rare but not non-existent. To these people, the idea that there is nothing negative will explain itself.

Q-            Darcy, in Pride and Prejudice, took the abuses of Elizabeth to some extent in that sense.

A-             He endeavoured to rise to her expectations. They were not missiles sweetly landing on him at that moment. Butler in 'Gone with the Wind' fully enjoys the rascality of his ladylove Scarlett. Here also he loves her in spite of her bad character. He does say to her, coming closer to our theme, that he loved her for the rascal she was.

Q-            The Marvel is the next step. These are very close to it. A workshop littered with scraps and broken parts, dirt, etc. is a sore to the eyes. The mechanic who has just then completed the repair of a machine removed it from there will KNOW exactly the marvellous role played by each bit there in making the machine work. To the eyes of his whole vision – the finished machine and the scraps – every bit is a wonder.

A-             The theory is there is the whole, neither positive nor negative. For us the village is positive, the surrounding forests are negative. It is the forest that brings in the rain, supplies fuel, fodder, and healing herbs. As it hides the robbers and wild animals, to us it is negative. Negative forest is a social or village conception. Beyond in life, the village and forest are one.

Q-            As we go along seeing this truth in various situations, it will render the principle here clear.  The idea of void and zero are to be explained.

A-             Philosophically it is a revolutionary concept. HE says there is no zero.

Q-            He also says what we do not know we have a habit of saying it is nothing. A library is of zero value to an uneducated man.  In his mind, he does not think that there is something not useful to him, but he believes there is nothing. This is the characteristic way of mind's functioning.

A-             Sri Aurobindo draws our attention to this human attitude in two or three other places too.

Q-            It was striking to me when I first read them. They are important arguments too.

A-             They are very important. We shall take it up for discussion if the circumstances permit. No. 36 is the law of contradictions, HE says, is not the final arbiter.

Q-            As Unity is the final law, contradictions, though they can serve up to a point, will not hold good to the end.

A-             Neither in our local life, nor in our ancient literature can we deny this.

Q-            When Indira was defeated, she went to Morarji the Prime Minister to request him not to harm her son. After the war was over Dharma went to Dhritharashtra and Gandhari for their blessings. Romeo and Juliet demonstrates the principle.

A-             He who emphasises hatred will be compelled by life to go to him whom he hates. Hatred is inverse attraction.

Q-            Spiritually it is untenable as Sat and Asat rose out of Brahman. Life never upholds it. In 1942 the Allies who had all joined to crush Russia unsuccessfully in 1917, sought the support of Russia.

A-             The Chinese proverb about today's friends and tomorrow's enemies is well known.

Q-            Apart from examples and the theory is there anything else we need to know here?

A-             The warp and woof are not contradictions. Together they go to make the cloth. Man and woman are not opposites, though they are of opposite sexes. They are the hub of biological creation. Because boys and girls are segregated, it does not prevent them from coming together in marriage. Man developed the law of contradictions out of the two essential elements for all creation.

Q-            As we spoke earlier, we need to see this truth everywhere in life. What do we have to say about No.3? Not to stop the inquiry.

A-             This is something obvious, but because the Rishis have stopped the inquiry in the middle, man has to accept karma.

Q-            Is it right to say mind cannot take the inquiry to the end?

A-             As mind has no capacity to see the other side, somewhere it has to stop the inquiry. Where life crashes on it, forcing it to see the results that reveal the other side, mind does see the other side. Until then mind is unable to see it.

Q-            The Boxers in China believed in the invulnerability of boxing and boxers. They believed bullets could not hurt them, until the bullets destroyed them. Gandhi was unable to see that non-violence has no power over human darkness. It is certain that it will be unleashed in one fashion or another at one time or other. Non-violence is a great powerful principle within limits. Gandhiji was successful in places where no man could dare to venture but what to do with an aggressive neighbour?

A-             To reverse the argument and apply it to prosperity and genius will be helpful.

Q-            When the average income from an acre is Rs.10,000, we see one man makes 2 lakhs from flowers or vegetables. It never occurs to the whole village to go for vegetables. If ever people take to it, they do so in less than an acre.

A-             In a school, we see a few boys securing centum. Neither to the teacher nor to the boys does it ever occur that each boy should secure centum. It is a form of unconsciousness.

Q-            Creation of genius will benefit from that principle, for sure.

A-             Asian poverty can thus be eradicated.

Q-            It is the Overmind that takes the single possibility given to it by the Supermind to its uttermost possibility, till it becomes unique and infinitesimal beyond which it cannot be divided.

A-             'Do not stop the inquiry in the middle' can otherwise be said as 'go to the Overmind'.

Q-            Yes, Yes. Now we understand His language. When we are asked to reconcile contradiction, He says 'look at it from the Supermind'.

A-             There must be a way of presenting Sri Aurobindo in the language of ordinary human beings.

Q-            I wish someone tries.

A-             The last chapter will serve this purpose better.

Q-    It is best summarised as

Know you are more than mind.

Realise what you know.

It takes you from the earth to the universe and beyond.

It cannot be mental, partial, unconscious, weak, local.

It will be Supramental, full, conscious, powerful and universal.

For these reasons it has to be inner and not outer.

No method the world so far knows can get it.

HE gives you a method the world does not know.

It is Transformation.

The method to attain to it is also unknown so far.

It is surrender of Brahman, not human surrender.

Achieve it, choose your style, simple or complex.

Evolve in knowledge, not any more in Ignorance.

A-             It is comprehensive. Explaining anything in this context will be admirable.

Q-            Surely, it will be intelligible. This is manna from heaven.

A-             I believe every chapter can be so spoken.

Q-            Maybe the whole of The Life Divine can be brought down to the language of the common man.

A-             It is largely possible.

Q-            Now that the world is moving on these lines feebly, man will be receptive.

A-             I believe man is ready to accept the idea of conquering pain as he has been witnessing it.

Q-            When he sees a factory producing all that an entire country can consume, the idea of practical infinity is less unconvincing.

A-             He certainly sees the phenomenon of children in his own house knowing more than he does. Genius may not be that distant in his conception.

Q-            People at the age of 60 suddenly see their company or government department presided over by a 30 year old or even 25 year old person.

A-             Events have subconsciously been preparing human kind.

Q-            Plague and smallpox have been eliminated from the face of the earth. Democracy, universal education, longevity, and human rights have done a lot so far.

A-             People who are on the Internet will be able to believe in anything.

Q-            They see the impossible as possible. There they have entered not the global picture, but the very universal arena.

A-             It is the ever-lasting day of Savitri where Yama, Lord of Death is not merely dead, but has been transformed into a being of Light.

Q-            I should like to take up those principles that dwell on the subliminal moving the surface. Our position is any principle will touch upon it.

A-             As we just mentioned, it is important to know how different HE is and what the difference is. As a matter of fact, you can call this 'subliminal yoga', as there is integration only at that level.

Q-            The world is starting to treat erstwhile slaves as present day equals, the great social values of the past as social crimes. They all start apologising for every past event then honoured.

A-             It is the subliminal coming to the surface. Even the terrorist and murderer are treated with sympathy.

Q-            We know in life several instances where life takes a course different from man's ideas. Are they occasions for the subliminal? A rich man, the VIP of a big town while negotiating for a marriage alliance for his younger brother with a poor relative, felt all the prestige of his post and wealth. The poor relative was insistent and assertive in an unbecoming fashion. He was dismissed by the rich man peremptorily. In the very normal course, it is the poor relative who will hang on to the other. All circumstances changed in an unheard of fashion, and the rich man was compelled to go to the poor man and beg for the rejected alliance.

A-             How do we see this?

Q-            My question is whether the rich man was compelled by his subliminal to go against the normal course.

A-             This is a good example. What the rich man wants is humility which his subliminal teaches him.

Q-            The conflict has a purpose, is it not? The conflict between the surface and the subliminal.

A-    Evolution has created ignorance and perfected it on the surface.

That surface ignorance getting knowledge is knowledge emerging out of Ignorance.

Q-            So, if the surface of the rich man learns humility, he progresses towards greater knowledge and his subliminal pushes him to do so.

A-             What is the role of man here, his mind?

Q-            His mind must choose knowledge instead of Ignorance.

A-             Does it mean the subliminal has all the knowledge?

Q-            No, it has more knowledge than the surface.

A-             What has all the knowledge?

Q-            The Superconscient.

A-             It is only in Timelessness.

Q-            Then the Superconscient evolving or expressing in the inconscient or the conscient has all the knowledge.

A-             It is the third dimension, the birth of Brahman, Brahma Jananam.

Q-            To bring any argument to the third dimension – Brahman Jananam – will explain anything.

A-             It is true. It is one essential way.

Q-            What are the other ways to arrive at the final knowledge?

A-             If you ask for a method, it is surrender. If what you ask for is an explanation, it is Fullness.

Q-            What are the ways – the several ways – of arriving at fullness?

A-             Rising to the Supermind, emerging out of the seven ignorances, ability to help another find his soul, triple transformation, and to be are the several ways.

Q-            In a sense, each chapter ends in telling us that method in its own way.

A-             Why not put all of them together?

Q-            Shed the ego, find the Supreme inside.

A-             Can we dwell on this theme, 'Find the Supreme inside'?

Q-            This Supreme is not the Absolute?

A-             Nor is this the Superconscient.

Q-            Why not distinguish them both from the Supreme?

A-             The Absolute is outside creation.

Q-            The Supreme is the first step in creation called by Sri Aurobindo the Self-Conscious Being.

A-             When the Conscious self absorbs itself, the Superconscient is created which is oblivious on the surface but is aware of itself inside.

Q-            The Supreme is a status before any of its extensions -- cosmic extension or objective or Time or 3 aspects or even Sachchidananda.

A-             If we attain the Supreme, what about Supermind?

Q-            Supermind is Truth acquiring consciousness, but Supreme is an earlier state, the earliest of states.

A-             Why not say 'Shed the ego, rise to the Supermind'?

Q-            That is all right.

A-             Can we say we have fairly covered the territory?

Q-            Yes, a bird's eye view.

A-             Any detail from any chapter will add to the illumination but the basic outline is referred to in several ways.

Q-            I wish we bring out some striking features of this yoga even if we have touched upon it till now, in a fashion it throws light on some essentials in the depth.

A-             Can you illustrate what you have in mind?

Q-            The creation of Matter by the senses of the Mind is one such.

A-             Action revealing Purusha by analysis detaching from it is another one.

Q-            His occult link, the secret of rising to the Supermind is one.

A-             Reality including the One and the Many is another.

Q-            They come in our list.

A-             Not all. Whether it is in the list or not, I wish that none of them are left out in our discussion.

Q-            Man's irresponsive attitude to the Hour is important.

A-             His answer to the scientist refuting chance and iron order but explaining the infinite variation and the cosmic determinism are such.

Q-            Along with that goes Mind over Matter. What is His answer?

A-             The Infinite emerging out of the finite naturally will have infinite variation. It looks like a perfect explanation that combines chance or iron order.

Q-            How?

A-             Infinite variation appears to be chance. As it moves towards a goal of infinite from the finite, the iron order emerges.

Q-            Cosmic determinism?

A-             As the creation is Self-conception, every determinism therein is also Self-conception. It is best seen in our own work.

Q-            We speak of it many times, I too explain it that way, but it does not stay in the mind, why?

A-             There is no apperceptive mass in the mind to receive it and retain it. We know what we do, but we do not think of it in terms of creative process.

Q-            I think like this, it should be nice to take issues of life that touch us deeply and explain them in his terms. E.g. People in India protested against plague vaccination and the British gave it up. More than a million died.

A-             Indians had no knowledge that those deaths could have been prevented.

Q-            Does it come under the principle that man does not know what he lost or what he gained?

A-             It is unconsciousness. Today the USA is leading in the use of computers and Internet. Do they know the Internet can multiply the business? Not only do they not know, they resist it ferociously.

Q-            It means superstition has the same force in any century. Perhaps like the elements it is always the same.

A-             You mean the chemical elements.

Q-            Yes.

A-             In Chapter 9 of the first book Infinity of space and eternity of Time are explained. There HE says at no point of Time or Space can you say there is nothing ahead. So there is no beginning. So also, there is no end. Can we not see the same in production?

Q-            What you say is true, but how to explain it?

A-             A piece of land produces some grains. How can you show it has infinite capacity to produce?

Q-            If it is true, there must be a way to explain it.

A-             It may be there, but I do not know it.

Q-            Year after year, the land produces, is it not? A machine too behaves like that. But this will not be satisfying.

A-             Our speech is infinite in the sense mind can infinitely produce speech.

Q-            It is the same as the land. But the example can serve our purpose if we can draw grain non-stop from the land.

A-             The principle is everything on earth is truly infinite. There is nothing finite.

Q-            That, if we can show or explain it satisfactorily, will be the practical concept of infinity.

A-             Compare the present with the 15^th century in terms of human needs.

Q-            Human needs are infinite. The secret there is the more need we create for ourselves, the greater does it grow.

A-             This is the secret of Infinity.

Q-            What?

A-             If something can grow, as the human needs, -- it feeds – grows – it grows on what it feeds – it is infinity.

Q-            Such an element is there everywhere. To be able to see that is to know Infinity. To know Infinity is to know Brahman.

A-             Anything retains the absoluteness in some form.

Q-            If the absolute is there in some form, we must be able to know it.

A-             To discover the Infinite in finite things is the penultimate step to discover the Absolute – Brahman – in it.

Q-            Maybe only those who have discovered the Brahman inside will be able to see the Brahman outside.

A-             That is generally true, but not mandatory. Maybe seeing Brahman inside is a bar to seeing Him outside in the sense any realisation unless given up is a bar to further ones.

Q-            Can we say the Master Keys are knowing the Infinite and Brahman in life?

A-             Yes, we can say so.

Q-            Are you not sure of them?

A-             The higher the goal, the greater is the difficulty but its other side is the higher, the more accessible.

Q-            It may be misunderstood as easier.

A-             In a sense it is, as top political posts are more accessible than top administrative posts.

Q-            What is more accessible may not necessarily be more easily attainable.

A-             Brahma Jananam, the third dimension, the evolving Brahman, the Infinite in the finite, etc. is more easily shown to people than less exalted realisations.

Q-            You mean explained to them or shown to their perception?

A-             Either way.

Q-            Whatever do you mean?

A-             Should the person who wants to explain KNOW it fully, he should be able to explain it easier than other things. If the person has realised it, he will be able to reach their perception.

Q-            Making pupils understand is easier than making them memorise the lessons.

A-             Exactly. The greater comprehension and greater realisation lends itself to easier explanation and easier communication.